Black Holes Act 1

Suley

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Introduction

Nina Davies

You're listening to Future Artefacts FM , a bi-monthly podcast/broadcast featuring speculative fiction audio works by artists and writers produced and presented by Nina Davies,

Rebecca Edwards

Niamh Schmidtke

and Niamh Schmidtke, on RTM

and also available on podcast channels.

The programme focuses on fictional works intended for broadcast to carve out a better understanding of the now by exploring various interpretations of the future.

Together with guests we discuss the mechanics of different types of storytelling to reveal the complexities of contemporary culture. Let’s get started.

All

Let’s get started.

Artist Introduction

Welcome back to Future Artefacts episode 28. It's exciting that we have Sulay here with us on this episode, and today for hosts, you've got the original Dynamic Duo.

Yes, me, Nina and your favorite host

Yeah, we're sorry to not have Rebecca here with us today, but yes, you will be making do with Nina and myself. How are you Sulay? Welcome to the show.

Sulay

Hello, hello. I’m well, thank you. Yeah, as I said, earlier, hottest day of the year, sun shining. Spirits are high.

Pollen count is high. You'll probably get a few sneezes in this episode. Yeah, before we introduce the work, I'm just going to introduce you to our audience. So Sulay is a playwright, painter, lawyer and lecturer. Sulay uses world building as a radical tool to deliberately instigate change. His latest body of work is an attempt to critically reflect on the familiar with which we are inextricably bound, fusing sculpture, ceramics, print, media, film and sound. Sulay continues the Afrofuturist tradition of generating a multiplicity of futures with which to positively affect the present. Very exciting. You don't, you haven't included, oh no, you've included sound. I was gonna say you haven't included radio plays in there…

Although, I mean, the three of us were really shocked when we learned that this is your first radio play for sound work and for a bit of context on the episode, so the piece that we're listening to today is called Black Holes Act One. It's part of a larger body of research, but it's also a longer radio play piece. It's about 40 minutes long, so we're going to be splitting the work in half…

Splitting up act one into two parts. So it's like Act One Part One

And so this is also a two part episode, because we knew you liked the previous time we did this, so we're coming back and doing it again. Yeah.

We also wanted to share the entire work. It felt, it felt weird, sharing a sharing a snippet of it, considering it already is like a snippet of, like a larger body of work

Absolutely. And I think it's quite, I mean, I encountered the work firstly when it was on show in Deptford on Resolution Way quite recently, and expected to stay in the gallery for 10 minutes, like a typical gallery visit. And really couldn't leave until I'd listened through to the entire act. And so we hope that also doing this two parter will make you really want to come back and listen to the second half, because it's not quite a resolution, but I think it's an unpacking of what we're going to be listening to today.

We clearly want to talk about the show, the episode, right now, but we'll head into the work. But before we do, is there anything you want to say about the work before anyone listens to it?

Yeah, thank you. I don't think I've got anything kind of overly prescriptive about the work or how it should be kind of engaged with. You know, it's in good quality. So I think, you know, good quality speakers or headphones, I think would also go down well on a drive. I think it invites introspection. So I think it's, it may be best enjoyed, you know, with a kind of focused concentration, not like exam conditions, but, you know, maybe with a nice walk or something like that.

Okay, great. Well, get ready for Black Holes Act One Scene One. Okay, see on the other side you

Work: Black Holes Act 1 (Scene 1)

[piano melody, techy noises, bass]

Good afternoon. It's Friday the 17th of January, and you are watching News at one. Our top story today is that extraterrestrial material has been discovered at the Royal Botanical Gardens in London. The discovery was made yesterday afternoon by a group of visitors to the garden, experts have confirmed that the material and radiation emitted are not from this solar system.

Since the discovery, the Army has locked down the gardens in the South West London area. There has been no official statement from the government just yet. However, a spokesperson has advised caution and for speculation to be checked. It is not yet clear whether the material is advanced or technological in nature, but experts have confirmed that the material was not there when they last checked.

As you'd expect, news has spread across the world, and flights to the UK are at an all time high. Apparently, millions of people have taken the day off work to simply watch the news about aliens. Obviously, this raises huge questions for us as a plan... Oh, it looks like we have a development…

… going over to Kew Gardens with our reporter, Clive Barrington.

Clive Barrington here reporting live from Kew Gardens, truly exceptional scenes that we're witnessing here today. The alien material is about 20 meters through the trees that way. Unfortunately, this is about as close as we're allowed to get, and we can't see an awful lot from here. We've been here for quite some time today, and just in the last few moments, the activity has heightened, the noise that has been emitted from the box has increased in volume, and it's starting to get quite a lot louder now, actually, very difficult to describe. It's like a buzzing in the ear, and the air temperature has now suddenly increased as well. It's suddenly got quite a lot warmer, quite extraordinary. The noise is actually becoming… it's becoming quite deafening now. I'm sorry to the viewers back home. Clive Barrington reporting what can only be described as unprecedented scenes here, because it's getting an awful lot louder, and the people in the distance now actually are starting to scream and shout. Some are even getting on their knees in prayer. It really is quite a scene that we're witnessing.

The noise has now actually changed. It's become more like a drum beat. It really is incredibly loud. It's really painful, actually at this point. And the air is now incredibly hot, and the noise, once again, is changing. It sounded a little bit more like cheese now, but incredibly muffled. I can hear there are words being spoken but I can’t quite work out what language…

What would you trade for the glories of your empire to be remade, to renew your riches from times of old? We will deliver you jewels, resources and gold to heal your land and clean your air. Secrets of nuclear fusion, we shall share to protect your interests in the face of defiance, yours are our munitions and our science in exchange for being offered this most generous pack we want all in your land who are black.

[piano melody, footsteps, knocking at door]

You, you, yes, come in. You're late. Take a seat and let's jump straight in. You all know why you're here. I generally don't convene these meetings at such ungodly hours, especially while the rugby is on, but here we are. Thank you, Ian, for lending us your office while pest control fumigates Number 10. Stephen, would you like to bring everyone up to speed, in case they've been living under a rock?

Yes, Prime Minister. Everyone, at 1000 hours on Thursday the 16th of January, two members of the public investigated a strange noise coming from the thicket of Kew Gardens. They stumbled upon a rectangular box, approximately 1.2 meters, by 60 centimeters by 60 centimeters, that experts have confirmed is extraterrestrial matter.

What does that mean?

It means it's not from planet Earth stupid, Jesus, aren't you the fucking science secretary.

Piss off Jess. I mean, is it some sort of a meteoric or a fucking alien spaceship sent to enslave us?

I don't know how you two are married, but I love the energy. Please continue, Stephen.

… tests conducted by science experts seem to have confirmed that the material poses no threat, has no weapons, or is a danger to our atmosphere, the object emits a disconcerting humming noise. There's left many people in a state of confusion, fear and agitation, with some needing acute medical care afterwards.

Sounds like your last budget Ian,

[laughs]

Good one. Martin, make sure you minute that

Yes, sir.

Once the experts confirmed its origins, we have had the whole area blocked by the army.

Our cousins across the water have been very concerned by the development. Our cables picked up chat about annexing Kew Gardens for the stewardship of the international community. That was until recent events.

Yes, Friday, the 17th of January, at 1300 hours, the box was activated. I am assuming we have all seen the footage or heard the audio, but in summary, the alien box spoke, seemingly in the voice of our founder, the Right Honorable Member of Parliament for Clacton, and offered the British government what I mean, people, gold, clean energy and new technology, potentially weapons, in exchange for our black citizens.

Why him? Is he one of them?

We're not too sure, but experts have confirmed the voice is his own, and since he is currently serving a 17 year sentence in Belmarsh, we are also investigating how they might have recorded him.

Fuck me.

Thank you, Stephen, yes, quite the offer. Indeed. This is a once in a generation moment, which is why I wanted to bring you all together to parlez. I value most of your views, so please share candidly, and remember this is a safe space.

[laughs]

But seriously, seriously, any initial views. Peter, make sure you minute this all.

Yes, sir.

Well, if I may start, Prime Minister. Prime Minister, the NHS limited would be freer without having to deal with the substantial costs associated with this group's high rates of prostate cancer, diabetes, vexatious prenatal, antenatal and postnatal claims, and, let's be honest, stab wounds.

I don't have any figures in front of me, but I think we'd all agree that

Aren't a lot of the support staff black?

Not anymore. I think most are Asian or from somewhere else, maybe just other.

Other?

Yes, other, a new racial group that we've been hearing quite a lot about.

Peter, make sure you write that down.

Yes, sir.

Good work. Jess.

Thank you, Prime Minister. Either way, with all this gold being offered, we could finally roll out the new AI service that the Musk Foundation has invested so heavily in. We really think this new service will unlock the potential of the new NHS limited.

Yes, this gold being offered does particularly sweeten the deal. As you all know, our baby budget didn't land as we'd hoped, and our rates for borrowing are much higher than we can afford.

Thanks again for that. Ian.

Piss off, James. How's that environmental plan coming along? At last, I heard you poisoned half of Derby.

Can't Knock me for trying.

[laughs]

Don't minute that. Peter.

Yes, sir.

But seriously, we're talking about the national debt being potentially repaid in a heartbeat, wiped clean. Unlike some of my esteemed colleagues here, I have brought some figures. At conservative estimates, the British Empire had a GDP of 2.5 billion and overseas assets of 4.5 billion, with inflation, that would be approximately 220 billion pounds today.

And how much do we owe?

By some coincidence, exactly that. And that's just the gold. With the nuclear fusion technology and cool alien tech, IP patents, tourism and military power, we'd be the global superpower once more.

[commotion]

Just to add to that too, the prisons would be empty and defending would surely be lower.

Streets would be cleaner, more traffic.

Thanks, Michael. Is there any legal precedent in forcing through something like this? We don't want this going to the Supreme Court.

Well, Prime Minister, young people serve with the military as a part of our popular National Service scheme. So it's not that different. We could look at it as a form of conscription service to the betterment of the country and all that

… too different from the armed forces in general. Maybe go off to serve without thinking that they'll ever return. Yes, the losing part of our BAME forces would deplete our numbers, but likely we'll lose most of the laziest in our rats. But I, for one, would give my life for this great country, but any self respecting patriotic English man, which so many of this lot claim to be, would and should do the same

Hear Hear.

Bloody gold

Putting on my minister of culture and Common Sense Hat for a sec, we would solve the drill problem in accepting the offer. That's for sure.

This would also be a good opportunity to finally elevate our unique, homegrown talent. I'm thinking of the many who feel unable to express their true creativity for fear of being labeled appropriators.

Good point. Jess, thanks for that. This could unlock so much British talent.

Playing devil's advocate here, the Commonwealth won't be happy about this, and it remains to be seen how the international community react.

Between us, the French and Italian presidents of WhatsApped me to ask if we can take their black people too.

What do we say?

Get your own bloody aliens.

[laughs]

Well, that being said, as a sovereign country, no one can force us to do anything. The Least of all, the Commonwealth.

Our efforts have been perhaps too effective in limiting actions against the police, stifling calls of racism in general. Accepting this trade may look like discrimination. Article fourteen of the ECHR clearly guards against racial discrimination. Article two and five protect the right to life and liberty respectively. Article three, torture. Article four, forced labor. If one of our black citizens returned and made a claim, we'd be in huge trouble. The case law is extremely settled on this. I'm afraid

[unintelligible]... expressly without any of the rights you just mentioned?

Oh, yes, so we did. Sorry.

Okay, okay, we all make mistakes. Maggie, let's have a word later. Thank you. Beverly. Stefan, you've been silent so far. Any views?

Well, I think it's important to remember what numbers we are talking about here. With the Windrush operation and Congo plan, there are already less black people in the country as before. Nearly all now live exclusively in cities after our nationwide rural engagement campaign, or are in prison.

Prime Minister, I think we're not thinking about it in the right way. Under no circumstances can we force black people out of the country to a fate unknown for gold and resources. Your polling is already not great. It has to be a referendum. Let the people decide.

Good, good.

Pushing through the new legislation would be too tricky. Allowing the people to choose, as we have done so before, is the only option. With the right campaign. We can steer the electorate without showing our hands.

God, you really are good, Duncan.

You shouldn't even really be here.

What was that Simon?

nothing

hmm, as I was saying, give the choice to the country, language and branding will be key. As always, it can't believe or remain after the Brexit vote, despite our forefathers stellar work at that time.

Unfortunately, that time and the politics still irks in the memory of some, even after we outlawed lettuces, indeed. So yes, the way we put the question to the people will be vital, stay or go, accept or reject.

How about something snappy, positive, like yay or nay? We will also need to do some work on the marketing and visuals. We've used the term alien too much in our political messaging around migration. No one is going to want to vote their neighbors away with a group we've worked so hard to demonise. No, we need something more relatable, quirky…

BOC, beings of the cosmos, minority species, the cosmological south.

We don't know where they come from so that doesn't make sense.

It's called brainstorming and sharing ideas. Simon, try it sometime.

Okay, okay, let's calm things down. Thank you. Duncan, as always.

Ronke, you've been quiet so far. What are your thoughts on all this?

As you know, Prime Minister, my commitment to your mission since we've been in office has been steadfast. I have championed plans, regulations and rhetoric that have often brought unique suffering and mistreatment to the country's black community through the way they have undermined anti-discrimination legislation, diverted funds intended to those on low income and housing support and stoked into communal tensions. For this, I have been called every name under the sun by those of every colour and creed.

However, I have always believed that black people need not rely on socialism or identity politics to succeed. My conservativeness is exactly my own, and I am proud to represent as deputy prime minister, a party that also upholds and defends such values. Many have struggled to reconcile my race with my remarks, but there is no one way to be one thing. I am no more duty bound to represent all black people in this country as Jess is to represent all gingers…

…strawberry blonde…

…and I hold this true as sure as I am standing here today, it is long time that we stood on our own two feet, dusted ourselves off and stopped asking for help, stopped crying about colonialism, racism and other structural inequalities, and ventured forth without stigmatising benefits or humiliating diversity initiatives.

Hear Hear

And in backing these policies, Prime Minister, the policies of this government have grown to realise that perhaps our motivations have diverged, and yet, I have acquiesced. But I cannot agree with the opinions I have heard today. One would expect more understanding, especially from colleagues whose personal lives would suggest a greater empathy on the matter…

[grunts]

…this offer, this most shameful trade in no way represents similarities with the armed forces or our successful national service program, as some suggest, mainly due to the fact that while our own initiatives do possess some risk of corporal harm, such an outcome is not the intention of the program. I am as patriotic as you all indeed, this country has perhaps given me more than any of you, and I would gladly give my life for it, but I draw the line at sentencing my children, parents and demented grandmother, to an unknown celestial fate simply to pay our nation's debt, protect our environment and secure our energy supply, issues that some around this table have brought about with their sheer ineptitude.

Further you would seemingly sign away the fate of our nation's black people without any sort of judicial or democratic process, by decree, it would appear, just shy of 2 million people. Would you speak so brazenly if these aliens were seeking to banish Birmingham and Leeds?

We'd be so lucky.

I don't think we'd be having this conversation if the aliens wanted your friends and family.

Ronke please, it isn't about who cares the most, or who is willing to sacrifice what, but the situation is as it is. It is unbecoming of you to speak in such hypotheticals and suggest, as you so clearly, are doing, that some of us care less about this…

We as a nation, enacted the slavery abolition act in 1833 setting a moral compass for the entire world to follow. Does that count for nothing here?

Ronke, I really am disappointed that you couldn't be a little bit impartial and less… affected in the face of such an opportunity for your nation. And I would put it to you that your recollection of history is a tad selective. In 1837, four years after we abolished slavery, we enacted the Slavery Compensation Act remunerating the custodians of black people. And now, ladies and gentlemen, we are being reimbursed for the same. History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes, Mark Twain.

Hear Hear

Yes. History's purpose isn't to comfort us. It reminds me of that Churchill quote, history doesn't exist to make us feel good, special, exceptional or magical. History is just history.

Sir, that is David Olusoga, the distinguished black British historian who you would trade away to the aliens.

Peter, check that out.

Yes, sir.

Also forgive me if I'm missing something, but we're really focusing on the potential downsides here. Maybe this is the salvation and deliverance they often sing about. Who are we to know this isn't part of some intergalactic DNI.

You Stefan, are a massive prick. I am so glad I fired you when I did.

Like a million years ago and for a different party, look where you are now.

Erm, a point that hasn't been raised yet is whether, whether the aliens can even be trusted. How do we know that they will make good on their offer?

Great point. Jess, we shall ask the aliens about the goods. Make sure they're not bluffing. Okay, a lot to unpack. There. Great session. Team Stefan, Duncan and Beverley. Stay behind. Please. Meeting adjourned.

[outro music]

Conversation

Welcome back

Yes, welcome back. Hope you enjoyed Black Holes Act One. To kind of kick things off. Sulay, can you talk about what led up to this work and why you were interested in working with radio first of all?

Yeah. So this story began, I guess the kind of two parts to this story, the most recent part began on August 7 of last year. I was on my way to Kew Gardens. I just finished with my degree show at the RCA. Sun was shining. Life is very good. I'd splashed out on a Kew Gardens membership because they had a little student offer, and I was on the overground. I think four or five days before this, there'd been the attack in Southport. There had been widespread conspiracy and speculation about the identity of the attacker, which, just as an aside, I guess, is interesting with what's happened recently in Liverpool and how that's all been managed very differently.

But so yeah, the far right were kind of causing widespread disruption, I guess, and rioting, race riots around the country. And I think that Wednesday was the day that they were supposed to be descending to London. I think for a lot of that initial period, they'd been outside of the capital, outside of the main kind of urban areas, and unbeknownst to me, they were going to Brentford, which also unbeknownst to me at the time, was next to Kew Gardens.

And so I was on my way, and my sister called me, and she said, you know, you may not want to go to Kew Gardens today, the far right are in Brentford. I think they list that had been shared they were going to like Walthamstow and like Finchley and two people called me and spoke to me and said, like, it's not worth the risk.

And, you know, I'd been seeing footage of people being attacked around the country, you know, black and brown people being harassed, you know, and thoughts of Stephen Lawrence, thoughts of just unnecessary racial violence, which was new to me. You know, I was 33 at the time. And as the doors were closing at Walston junction, I jumped off the train, and it was just a really physical experience of like “oh I’ve had to…” It’s a privilege that it took me this long to not have to

Physically change what you’re doing

Yeah. And in some places it’s a daily threat and you know, the threat of violence because of a protected characteristic is a daily issue for many people. And so I jumped off the train and I went to Hampstead Heath in the end. And I thought for the whole time, you know, like what would individuals, these rioters do if they could quote-unquote get rid of us as many people were saying at the time? To send us home, to send us packing. What would actually happen if they had a viable offer?

The rest of that evening was really strange. There was kind of like this curfew around the city people were being told they can leave work early, like the cinema was closed, or, like, you know, you couldn't go out if you were black, essentially, which is, it was a really strange experience. But that was really the kind of real birth of this current story when I thought, actually, you know, what would happen if there was a viable offer on the table?

The second part of this origin story happened a few years earlier. I was studying at Harvard Law School and was studying critical race theory. And the founder of critical race theory as a, at least a legal ideology, was a man called Derrick Bell. He had written a short satirical novella called Space Traders, in which, you know, a very similar thing happens. Aliens come to the States in this in the story, and offer gold and innovative technology in exchange for African Americans.

And, you know, being a lawyer who also has a creative practice and reading this story was really inspiring, but I think it just lay dormant for a while, and I was thinking like, you know what, beyond just being inspired by it, being inspired by it, what can actually, what can I do with it? And I think on October, August 7, sorry, of last year, things just start to click into place. And I thought, oh, what would happen if that story was reimagined in this current context, where, sadly, the satire and the sadness kind of almost too close, but that was really where the story came from.

When was space traders by Derek Bell?

I think it was either late 80s or early 90s, and it was part of a wider tradition at that time of critical race theorists who were trying to explore different modes of delivering their ideologies. So, you know, moving into literature more creative forms. So it's not just you know, either papers or, you know, judgments, which is the main reason that one of the main ways that lawyers can kind of push their or share their ideologies.

But I guess also even thinking about who has access to an academic paper versus who has access to a short story, or, in this case, radio, which I think is one of the things I've always really enjoyed putting together this show is it's free. You know, you don't need a certain background or education or income or whatever to access it. It's there for whoever wants it.

Yeah, yeah. And I think some stories and some, I guess, some themes I think are almost too important to be restricted behind a white wall space.

One of the things that I really enjoy about this work is that you're moving between different opinions, between both public and private spaces. So we start off by listening to a news forecaster, and then we go inside, to inside of the cabinet meeting. And the kind of the bulk of this first half of Act One is in the Cabinet meeting.

So I guess what I want to question is, what made you want to move between these different types of opinions? Kind of why was it important that we see both, let's say, the public facing and the internal government facing side?

It was important to try and show both sides because I think at times, in the kind of current political age, things can feel so juxtaposed in that, you know, the inside, the interior, the politics of these spaces that you're in with friends and family, can feel so underrepresented when you look to the papers or you listen to your leaders.

And so I really wanted to get that kind of… yeah, really heighten that contrast. And so going from the cabinet meeting is, you know, the nucleus of the kind of political mind and the ideology - obviously a very satirical extremist concept - but I really wanted to show you know how that that contrasts later on with other different spaces as well.

There's something that you were talking about with us before, where around different forms of representation, in terms of being able to see yourself and your community in these spaces. But also, like particularly in the cabinet scene, there's this point where there's kind of like, you know, proving you're British enough or patriotic enough. And when I listened to the cabinet scene, you were talking before about watching shows like, Yes Prime Minister, and that being also part of your Britishness, and kind of feeling that within the script of it.

I mean, I was re-listening to it this morning, and I'd like, absolutely see all of these kind of caricatures of people that I would see in, like, Yes, Minister. But then it's inflected with this line that we hear by Ronke, who we're going to talk about shortly, very soon, where that's almost juxtaposing the whole thing. It's kind of like unraveling it a bit. It's like, oh, this is all fun and games b ut then, actually, no, it's not

Yeah completely. And I think, you know, these, these conversations around identity, of nationality, you know, going back to what happened last year, this idea of who's welcome and who is British, and who can be British, is it's just so it's so complicated. It almost feels it's such a folly to even get into it. It feels like, because, you know, I grew up in this country, so, yeah, you know, I grew up watching with my parents, you know, Black Adder and all these things that have really, you know, that feel very British.

I guess it's just a really sharp wit that I think I've always appreciated with… kind of like cutting human I've also always appreciated with that kind of those kind of shows. But yeah, Yes, Minister and then bringing up to the contemporary the work was really inspired by Armando Iannucci with The Thick Of It or In The Loop, but also bringing in influences from America, Atlanta, I May Destroy You… And so I think this idea of this massive soup, I guess, of influences and culture, which is what we all are, I think I really wanted to kind of make that clear in the work as well, because, you know, amidst a lot of conversations recently where the foundations in which you stand are really questioned. I think if it was only a few months ago that Rishi Sunak was, you know, his Britishness or Englishness was challenged. And we're talking about the first prime minister, you know, the first non white Prime Minister. But even at that level, your foundation is not secure. And so I really wanted to bring, I guess, some of that tension into this work by drawing upon so many white influences.

This sort of cabinet scene. Do you feel like that's sort of how it's operating for you, as a sort of, like that questioning of, like, the challenging of who is British?

Yes, yeah? Because, I mean, it comes up quite clearly, I guess, in that there's a tense interaction between Ronke and Beverly, yeah, where, you know, I think the line is, I think Beverly’s like, “I would give my life for this country as any self respected English woman”. And you know, there is this idea that when the chips are down, who's allowed in and who is excluded?

And, you know, you could have really worked really hard on your assimilation into some ideal. But, you know, it's sad, sadly, it does feel that, you know, there's, there's always a moment when you may… your card is rejected, I guess. And I think Ronke, throughout this story, is just, is a is essential character to exploring that theme,

Yeah, because Ronke is, like, a really interesting character in that. And I guess this is also something I'm thinking about in terms of the piece being radio as well. You know, we don't see who's in the room, right? And so when we're listening to the cabinet meeting, we also don't know if there is any person of color in the room. We don't know if the room is completely white or so forth. And so when Ronke is introduced, she is the only person who we know is a black MP who's in the room with them.

And we've spoken a bit about this before, but I'm wondering, Is she representative of someone currently in UK politics, you know, like I'm thinking about, you know, the Conservative Party being kind of the most diverse party in terms of… [laughs]

Yeah it’s really, really weird. Yeah, it's been a strange, strange time, I guess, for all of us. But, um, yeah, I guess seeing, seeing a party which you don't agree with on many, many things and themes, seeing that party also, you know, seemingly, you know, bear the torch for a lot of, you know, firsts, let's say… it's just been quite, quite bizarre and not notwithstanding the fact that a lot of those individuals and politicians are also the mouthpieces of really toxic and divisive policies which have a disproportionate impact on some of the communities in which they're from, which they're raised. It's been this like strange…

Mental gymnastics?

Yeah. When Rishi Sunak was appointed, you know, I wanted to celebrate, and I did, in a way, celebrate, but it also felt like it was a hollow victory. And so, yeah, this story is, you know, Ronke is, well, you know, in the original Space Traders story, there is a character called Professor Golightly, who occupies a similar position to Ronke as being the only black… he's not a politician, but, you know, black person in the immediate circle. And so I was keen to try and bring that kind of role in. And yeah, Kemi Badenoch, I think, is a direct influence of Ronke, but Ronke also represents, you know, wider ideals of tokenism and diversity at that level as well.

And just for anyone who's listening, not in the UK, Kemi Badenoch is current leader of Conservative Party.

know it's, yeah, it's a strange one. So yeah, Kemi Badenoch is the current leader of the Conservative Party in the UK, the first black female, black person to hold that role. Has been a champion against identity politics, quite a big play on the culture war, I would say, during her time in office. She was Minister of Trade at one point she was also ironically, I think like Minister of like communities or like minorities, I think. But, yeah, I think she represents something really interesting, I think in a kind of wider sense of this story, you know.

As an artist who happens to be black, I don't think that my race should be important for the engagement of my work. And I don't think I should speak for all black people as part of like, with my artistic voice or through my work. And so I also don't think that Kemi Badenoch should really have to represent all of us in the same way, personally. And I think it feels like a double standard to think, you know, world I should be able to say and just represent me, but also I think she should have to represent or have to be a particular way.

However, there are different rules to elected politicians who are pushing the righted policies and so like, I don't think my sympathy, definitely goes all the way, but I think this kind of tension of, what does it mean for her to be there, and what does it mean for her to be there and be doing what she's doing for her and everyone else, especially in the context of this story, is something I wanted to explore

That's really funny. We were sat outside just before you arrived, and I said to Niamh, I was like, I feel like this is a kind of stupid question, but is Suley sympathetic to Ronke, or, I was unsure, and I was like, I don't know whether, like, you have a sort of particular view on it, but it's nice to hear…

So I, as I was saying, offline. So this, either this morning or this afternoon, I would have finished, I think I basically finished the second draft of Black Holes as a play, which is maybe getting into later parts of the story. But Ronke’s role, her arc, is central to the story. And I think as I've been writing it, I think it's weird, because I've definitely, you know, she's so representative of Kemi Badenoch, that as the story develops, I can't help but feel that, like my feelings towards Kemi Badenoch… have changed. I guess it's because it's the Kemi that is related to Ronke, if she does what Ronke does, obviously, in a very different context

But you fictionalise the character, yeah. You fictionalize the character, and, yeah.

I think also this thing that also when we listen to the cabinet meeting in this in this part, when she's saying, kind of, I do not have to represent all black British citizens, but then, because she is the only black person in the room, she does end up… I mean, you are an elected representative too, right? And I think as you hear her having to very, very quickly becoming othered in the room. You know, even though she is holding predominantly the same ideologies as the rest of her cabinet members, it's that moment where, as you're saying, kind of it flips, and it's like, Oh, it doesn't like, I can assimilate as much as you think. But then when the card's full, you're still going to view me as being external in some way.

Completely, completely. I think it's in that transition that she almost is like reclaimed, or she… either she claims a wider whole, or she is claimed by the wider whole. But it's, you know, we can get into the semantics of racial descriptions, but it feels that, you know, maybe it's something about that rejection of assimilation, or the rejection of the myth of assimilation, which means that you can be therefore claimed by someone else.

And I think it's in this story as maybe she really grapples with that, that she is, you know, maybe brought closer, either she moves closer or, like, the other side, moves close. Obviously, in the story, it's just all black people, you know, and it's left particularly vague. You don't know how people are going to be traded. You don't like… the logistics are really kept out of the story, but because it is something which just affects everyone in a blanket way, by virtue of being part of this blanket, you are in a like, objectively part of a wider whole. And I think that's when, yeah, I think maybe my feelings towards her have softened, you know, I don't, well… yeah, maybe it was more, yeah, maybe extreme to say that my feelings towards Kemi Badenoch have softened. But I guess it's via Ronke. I guess I'm starting to understand, I guess, the nuances of that kind of role.

Yeah, so this conversation seems to already be set in a not too distant future where the British Bill of Rights has been rewritten. Is that correct?

Yeah, the British bill of British rights for Britain.

okay, yeah,

Is that? Wait, that's the real?

That's the fiction.

That's the fiction. Okay. I was like, wow, that's a lot of Britain in one title.

So, yes, that kind of made me think that you there's sort of… even though this is this, the British bill of British rights for Britain is introduced in the beginning of the story, it kind of implies that there's sort of a world that you kind of, I guess, imagined or made before kind of getting into the work. See, I was wondering what kind of world you imagine this conversation to take place in, and what rights have already been stripped prior to this conversation, and why.

So I think my initial idea was, you know, obviously we've got aliens coming to Kew Gardens, which, you know, automatically puts us in the Sci-Fi space. But I've always been really inspired by, you know, writers like John Wyndham, who wrote Day of the Triffids, and this idea of like… I don’t know if it's called sci fi realism, but it feels like, you know, just the world is the same, except that there are these marauding, murderous plants and everyone's gone blind, otherwise it's completely the same.

And I think in reading those books and really enjoying the worlds in which they've built, you're able to really empathise and emote in a way which I find really interesting, because, you know, it's not Wakanda, it's not Star Trek, it's like this is happening right now.

And so I wanted to do was create something which, you know, you can, you know, that it's a bit different. And I think, if anything, by virtue of having these little signs that you're in a different universe, notwithstanding the fact that there are aliens, but the fact that, you know, there's a different political party, you know some of the legislation has changed, but there's still links and references to things like Brexit or lettuces being outlawed. You know, I wanted to make it easy for the listener or the viewer or whoever engages with the work to, I guess, tip toe into this world.

But then, you know, as you get deeper and deeper, you start to… you're kind of forced to remain there. And I was hoping to use the kind of the small fictional aberrations of this new world to invite the viewer in, and kind of almost like a trail of breadcrumbs, until you're like, “Oh, hold on”, like you're in the story. And I think the idea of this is a wider piece, but also Act One is to, you know, beyond the whimsy of, you know, some of the comedy and the satire is really to try and interrogate, you know, like, what does it mean I guess, to make a people feel expendable? You know, are we all willing or able to make sacrifices for the greater good and things like that? And so, you know, to try and kind of bring the listener in casually, but then keep them there quite firmly.

In respect of, like, what actual rights have been curtailed in this new British bill of British rights for Britain. It's basically all of the rights under the ECHR so, you know, the right against torture, rights against forced enslavement, or labor, racial discrimination. You know, I think all of the… and again, I think the satire really starts quite strongly in the cabinet scene, in part because I guess there's just so much fodder, because we've just lived through such a crazy political age. But you know, these are also conversations that we've been having as a nation for years. The Tories have been trying to scrap the Human Rights Act for ages. It always comes up, hopefully is now put to bed, at least for this government, but it seems to always be this kind of lightning rod of like, “when are we gonna finally exploit ourselves from all of these, like, you know, just awkward rights that we have to have upheld?”

And so I think, as part of this new world that I wanted to build, I also wanted to lay the foundation that, you know, this is something which, you know, all of these things and references and aspects of this world, I think maybe seem a bit fantastical when they're all put together, but like the story was really inspired by the news.

But I think something about the one of the… the character who, I can't remember the name of the character, who kind of brings up saying, like, “Oh, this is going to be sort of like a what, just like an HR PR nightmare.” And then they say, like, oh, but this new British bill of British rights makes it seem like there's something quite secretive about this new bill of rights. Like, the fact that a politician would have forgotten about it feels like it's something that's been changed but hasn't actually yet been, like, implemented, like it's sort of being saved to…

they hid it in a bad news cycle, basically

Yeah, yeah. There's something that kind of makes it seem like surely everyone would know that that big change had happened, but maybe, but maybe not

In this world, you know, is, is pretty underhand, as you as like… again, nothing that is probably more tame than what we've actually seen over the last few years, if I'm really honest. I think, you know, I shudder to think what would have happened with the Boris Johnson government…

I think, as we're moving into, I guess, a new political age where maybe the Tories seed opposition status to reform, and the next election is Nigel Farage/Keir Starmer toss up, you know that that is an electoral question to the nation. Maybe, you know, obviously we're not saying, you know, vote for us and we're going to kick all the black people out. But you know, it may be a toss up between, you know, inclusion and exclusion in a way which, like I know this story is in a very extreme and convenient way to, you know, solve or approach this question just very neatly. But, you know, I really don't think it's that far fetched from the questions that we're having, you know, with our local elections. You know, on a global level of like, you know, these are policies, and I think ideologies which are not necessarily that abstract from the current age that we're living in.

Yeah, maybe that's a helpful way to segue into this question of the greater good, because it is something that comes up again and again in the work. And I think it's also helpful for us to unpack a little bit before going into the second half. And I'm thinking abou who are the greater good? Both that, but also how, how are they intersecting with minority groups? And what's really interesting to me is thinking about your background in law, and particularly human rights law, and sort of, who does the law protect and why and for whom? And that relating to ideas of greater good. Like we are going to arrest this person for the greater good, or we are going to protect this person for the greater good. And it really plays out across this piece. So yeah, can you share a bit more about how this work examines when these groups between the greater good, and, let's say marginalised community, when they diverge in interest.

Sure thing. So a central tenet of critical race theory is this idea of interest convergence. And this is a theory which states that in the context of racial relations and racial justice progress only happens when it's in the interests of both the dominant group and also the minority group in this particular context.

And so, you know, racially it would mean that racial progress only happens when it's in the interest of white people as well as the interests of those who are non white, let's say. And, you know, some would say it’s quite a cynical point of view, but you know, you do start to see it. It's like in the American, African American context, you know, a lot of some a lot of the civil rights movements and bills and legislation that was passed, you know, it's argued, also happened in a context of serving other interests. And we can see it very commonly, I guess, recently with the DEI rollback, you know that the second it's no longer in vogue due to political pressure or commercial interests, you know, the whole industry gets scrapped super, super quick.

And so the idea of Black Holes, you know, is to really test that. You know, obviously, whilst we have an oversized impact culturally, black British people make up quite a big minority in this country. There's only, like 3 million of us, or something like that. And so if this question was put to the nation or wasn't engaged by the country, it would be a conversation that would be decided by the majority in this country, which would be white people. And so the idea at the center of the story is like, you know, with all of these riches and gold and technology on offer, would people be able to reject that for, you know, a better shared humanity or a greater good, let's say.

But I think, to your point, around, you know, marginalised communities and the law, you know, I think it exists, this idea of interest convergence, like everywhere, right? Like the protection of rights is only as good as the enforcement setup that you have looking at things like, you know what's going on in Palestine at the moment, the idea that, you know, there aren't objective… I'm not saying objective rights, but you know for example, say the British position, government position, is potentially influenced by its own self interests in particular areas, I guess, the geopolitical areas, right? You know, it's not necessarily, it's not as clear cut as we're going to denounce Israel of all their actions, because there are other forces at play.

And so, you know, on a wider global level, there are also ways in which the direct benefit of or to something or to someone can outweigh, you know, what they may morally consider to be the better thing to do. And so it happens globally. It happens individually. And I think it's a really interesting question I think to keep in mind is, you know, “what am I part of?”, or “what is my self interest that is being maybe put above someone else at the moment?”

I think a few years ago, we had, gosh, five years ago, the Black Lives Matter, George Floyd, I don't call it summer, because it was more than a summer, but you know that in that real critical time frame, and there was a lot of questions around like, you know, are white people doing enough, personally, you know, to cede their status and their privilege to the betterment of other people?

You know, in a lot of the conversations around gender based violence, there's also been that same ask of men, right? You know, like, are we doing enough to make women feel safe and to make sure that we're trying to deconstruct the system that privileges us. And so, you know, these are all also questions around interest convergence, and I think it's important to kind of just keep it in mind that there's always something that we could be doing that would be maybe against our direct, you know, interest, but it's maybe for the greater good?

Yeah. I guess there's also maybe a question about the greater good, of, why is there an assumption, also within this work, or within the Cabinet members of this work, that Britain would be a better place without its black citizens?

Yeah

in terms of, I think that there's so much in this piece, like the use of jazz and kind of thinking about Afrofuturism, thinking about how it's been inspired by Derrick Bell's novel, and all these things that are so emblematic of, yes, British culture, but also black culture.

The assumption that Britain would be a better place without this is, for me, is also like the other half of like the greater good, you know.

Completely. And I think it's been a really, it's been a really interesting journey for me, developing this work and discovering artists like Sun Ra and, you know, getting deeper into the work of people like Octavia Butler and, you know, poets like Nikki Giovanni.

The Afrofuturist’s relationship to space and to belonging and place is really interesting. And there's so much work that suggests that, like, our place is not here, and that actually, like, you know, we're not, like, Sun Ra’s like, I'm not from this planet. And, you know, his work Space is the Place. It's a movie, astrange, strange movie. But he's an alien that is liberating African Americans to a home planet through jazz. And so in Black Holes, we have this tension about, you know, are we all going to get sent away? But there's also folklore that suggests that, like, we were never supposed to be in the first place. I mean, arguably, we're not supposed to be here, right? But like, you know, there is legend that actually, there's another place that we can prosper. And I think it was really interesting trying to, I guess, balance that tension. And so that is why there's a big jazz, uh, influence, and there will be moving forward throughout this work as well.

Okay, we're gonna leave it there.

Yeah, I feel like there's, like, so many more things that I want to talk about, but luckily, we've got a whole nother episode to get into this. Yeah, we've got part two, so we don't need to worry about running out of time, well, right now we do, but great.

See you back for the next episode, Black Holes Act One part two will be in two months. Yeah, hold on to your horses. See you.

See ya.

All

Bye.

Large Format Transcript

Black Holes Act 1​

Suley

Introduction

Artist Introduction

Black Holes Act 1